Leadership is more than just holding a title; it’s about guiding, inspiring, and managing people effectively. Often, new leaders find themselves promoted into roles without the right tools to succeed. How can we better prepare ourselves to excel in leadership, both internally and externally?
In this episode, I have Chris Thyberg, Founder of The Serving Way. Chris and I discuss the challenges of leadership, particularly when someone is promoted to a leadership role without the necessary training to manage and inspire effectively. We also explore the difference between the ‘inner game’ and ‘outer game’ of leadership. Elevate your leadership skills—listen now!
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The Inner and Outer Game of Leadership with Chris Thyberg
Welcome to Action’s antidotes, your antidote to the mindset that keeps you settling for less. How many of you out there have ever had a bad boss? And I say that because there’s kind of two different kinds of bad bosses in my view. There’s the person who’s just not able to tame their ego, that can be a little bit psychopathic, sociopathic, but then there’s a broader category of kind of more low-key bad bosses that kind of arise because, well, oftentimes, we promote people who are good at doing the day-to-day job, who are good at delivering the results but not necessarily the ones that are best suited or even training them on how to be a leader of people, which is an important caveat, and so when we look at that category of bad bosses, one thing I want to impress upon you is that it’s oftentimes not those people’s fault, they were never given the training to learn how best to inspire people, how best to manage people, how best to cultivate a positive and joyous work environment for the people working for them, all they know is how to do the day-to-day job and they did it well. To talk about this topic a little bit, I’d like to introduce you to my guest, Chris Thyberg, who is the founder of The Serving Way and a leadership coach.
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Chris, welcome to the program.
Stephen, thank you so much for having me and what a great setup. I need you to write copy for my website, please. That was just on point.
Well, my production team does produce a transcript of every episode so when this episode does drop in a few weeks, it’ll come in on the page on my website.
It’s a delight to be with you. Let’s go.
All right, well, that’s wonderful. So, Chris, it sounds like you’re observing the same phenomenon. We talked a little bit about how there are some people who are just psychopathic or haven’t tamed their ego but this broader category of people where they just weren’t set up to be good bosses, good managers, good leaders, because the training you get when you get promoted doesn’t really emphasize that.
That’s exactly right, and as I joked with you on the pre-show, as long as that keeps happening out in the marketplace, I have employment for life. Every single client that I am working with is in that in-between space. I call it the growing edge, where more of what got them there is not going to take them where they need to go at this level of leadership. So, for example, the star individual performer with super high competencies, expertise, skills, experience, knowledge, what I call the outer game of leadership, great, great. And then they get that promotion, almost like the bridge too far, and they are on the other side of this thing and they say, “Oh my gosh, I just got a 360 performance review and everything I built my identity around that I got promoted for is now what my team tells me is killing us. What do I do?” And they come to me in that place of how on earth did I get set up for this failure and I said, “No worries. This is the human condition. You are fine.” You are at a growing edge, which means, and I truly believe this and every coach worth his or her salt must come from this point of view, this point of view is that, Stephen, if you’re my client, you are not a problem to fix. You are a person who already has inside resilience, you have flexibility, you have creativity, you have a wholeness, you have a capability on the inside just hasn’t been tapped yet, and so now we start making a little pivot from clients who come, and we will definitely work on the outer game of leadership, that is our skills, practices, ways to show up, ways to speak and write and have presence and make good decisions and delegate and, and, and, and, that you will be better at. You will have demonstrable performance excellence on the other side. That’s what clients are paying for from a good coach. And then comes the moment when the pivot is it’s not just the outer game of leadership, it’s the inner game, or to use a metaphor, it’s not just more apps on the phone of my leadership, technique, skill, behavior, yes, yes, yes, to all of it. I actually need an operating system upgrade. I need to start looking at the world differently.
I need to look at who I am as a leader, not just what I do and how I do it. Share on XI need to ask the hard question why do I even want to be a leader at all? When we’re ready at that growing edge, we start bringing in the inner game, the inside out change of leading myself well first, leading myself well, and then from within, I can be a more effective leader for others. So, you see it all the time and that’s the top line of what the coaching conversation, what the coaching journey can be like walking alongside people at that growing edge. I love metaphors, so really believe that they’re already pregnant with the next great leader they’re going to be. But it’s not my baby, it’s their baby. I’m just a good midwife.
Yeah, just who they’re becoming. Now, you say the inner game versus the outer game. How can someone listening wrap their head around the distinction between that? What is the border between the inner game and the outer game?
So it’s very fluid. In fact, it’s a mistake to think there’s too firm a border. So, one of the big things that you named at the beginning of the difference between the pathological boss, the unskilled boss, and the great boss.
Yeah, the ones that are already doing a good job that don’t need your help.
Beautiful spectrum. So let’s focus on trust. All right. That is coin of the realm.
All right, so what goes in trust? Well, for me to trust you as a leader, I need to trust that you’re competent, that you can functionally do it. That’s outer game stuff, okay?
Now, when you’re talking about that competence, are you talking about the skills that got people to the leadership position? Are you talking about –
Talking about skills –
– at the job, the knowledge of the industry, etc.?
Yes, and now the new levels of competencies, skills on the other side of leadership, like how to run a productive meeting, from strategy to execution, decision making, all of that good stuff. So, you need to trust me that I can actually do the job of leading well, that I’m competent, and that can be learned. But, for you to trust me as a leader, you actually need to trust that I will do what I say. I may be competent but if I don’t do what I say I will do for you, it doesn’t matter that I’m competent. I lack integrity. I don’t do what I say I’m going to do. That’s inner game. And now, a bit of outer game again, for you to trust me, you need to trust my communication. Can we have difficult conversations? You can’t trust what I’m saying to you and have a productive conversation, then the leadership will fall apart. Well, having those hard conversations are learnable skills, competencies. Underneath that is do you trust my motivations?
Yeah, that’s a big one. That’s a huge one I’ve encountered a lot.
Yeah, because I may be super skillful, I may follow through as a leader, I may follow through on what I say, I may be extremely persuasive communicator, but I’m actually out for world domination. Out for myself.
Yeah, exactly.
Now we’re back on the inner so that example, just in the space of trust, it’s a dance. There’s how we’re showing up on the outside that people can see in our behaviors, even the nonverbals, and then what’s going on on the inside on how we’re making meaning of the world, how we’re interpreting the world, how we’re trying to get ahead. Sitting at that base of that inner game so much of the time is, what am I afraid of? What am I protecting? It’s the leader who’s more protective and driven by fear for themselves that will undermine whatever competencies and skills and outer game stuff they have until they look on the inside and say, “Now I know why I don’t delegate,” because I have this little story, if I delegate to you, and you mess up, the world will fall down on me. Therefore, I can’t trust you. And at the first sign that you are struggling with the delegation, thank you, I’ll just take it back, because I built a whole career on being the expert problem solver. Holy cow, I got to give up that identity to actually be a leader at that next stage.
Yeah, because those are the people that are not only destroying the morale of their employees but also probably working way more hours and way harder than they need to be as well.
Yeah, it’s no win for them.
Yeah, it’s a win for no one.
Yeah.
And this entire conversation brings up some of the topics I’ve heard around the idea of manifestation. And I know some people like the spiritual conversation, some people want everything practical, and what I love about the manifestation conversation is that there’s a way to translate it into the practical because they talk about thought becomes form, but thought becomes form because your attitudes show up in all these little things, like your facial expression, like your tone of voice, like even your tone over Slack or a text conversation can all show up and I think most people working for a leader can kind of tell what they’re motivated by and whether or not they’re stressed, anxious, fearful, all this stuff.
That’s spot on. How we take it into the language of manifestation or so on, it is up to each person, but a really good coach is always working with the whole leader that’s over there. You as a whole leader, there’s what’s going on in your thought processes, how you make meaning, how you interpret the world, the stories that were told to you and you’ve told yourself since you were five, and you’ve built a whole persona, a whole ego structure, around that thing. So, thoughts, man, as the tradition says, stinking thinking, it’ll get you every time, the thought space. But that emotional weather, where do we go emotionally in mood, in that reactivity? Yes, the body. What are we sensing right now? And to be aware of what’s coming up in my body might actually be the first signal. Oh, my jaw is clenching. I’ve learned with my coach when my jaw clenches, that’s because I’m feeling and thinking this stuff, and if I act on that, I know how that movie ends and it’s not good. Now, when I notice my jaw and I short circuit the feeling and thinking process and choose another way, starting with I just relax my jaw and body and breathe, well, holy cow, I’m showing up from the inside out, literally from the inside of my guts out in a way that’s much more effective, and then whatever a client takes to be spiritual, I take that as whatever are your primary concerns and values, the place where you find meaning and significance on the grand scheme. I don’t coach any clients as a problem to fix. I coach as a great human person with all that fullness and richness of the human experience that they can mindfully connect with, with awareness and intention and then use that to bring about the purposes that matter most to them.
And so anyone out there listening that’s in a situation where, let’s say you’re in a medium- to large-sized organization where you’re becoming a leader but you also have your leaders above you, there’s layers, and so if someone has a leader above them that’s fearful, anxious, all these things and projecting onto it, is it possible for someone that wants to be a good leader in that kind of middle management position to basically let the buck stop with them and still be a good leader to the people that they’re supposed to be leading by some of these techniques that you’re talking about?
I love being with clients in middle management. They’re often my favorite. For exactly what you’ve said, and I will say there’s even more hope than that. It’s possible for wherever we sit in the whole system to have 360 degrees of influence. Sometimes it’s called managing up. I don’t really like the phrase, I’m going to manage my boss, because it sounds as manipulative as when someone is trying to manage me.
Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
But there’s this notion, this powerful notion of followership. It is to be a great follower. And I think middle management, that starting to get into that upper tier is exactly the place where you can serve a leader so well if you are on your game as a leader of your folks and a great peer with your colleagues and a great follower up. Now, let me say a bit more about what that means and why it’s hopeful. First, if we know in us what spins us up into drama, now we can have a much greater appreciation and understanding of what spins our boss up into drama. Oh, and if we understand that in drama, people dance this dance, it’s very predictable, I’m either the victim, that is somebody else is to blame, I have no control, just poop happens to me, and then as a victim, I’m looking around for the next role. Who’s the persecutor? Oh, it’s my boss. He’s the persecutor, or it’s that lazy employee, he’s persecuting me by not getting his work done, but I’m a victim. So the victim is looking for who do I blame. The persecutor says, “Who is to blame? Who messed up here? Because it’s not me. I didn’t mess up. Who messed up?” And then everyone is looking for the third role, the rescuer, who will fix this? When we know that wherever we sit and we can say, “Oh, dang, I’m getting sucked into a drama triangle. I’m watching it spin up in me. I’m watching it spin up in that other person. What can I do concretely to help move us out of drama into empowerment?” This is part of being a great follower, because then it looks with the boss who’s really struggling and spun up into drama and says, “Man, if we could really figure out what we both want, what you want, boss, that alleviates the pressures and the pain that you’re suffering and what I really want and what our team wants and what the company wants and what all our customers want, we could figure out what’s in it for all of us, we could pivot from this is a crappy problem that I want to get away from to this is a potential, desired future we could both want to go toward, you and me together, boss, and our team.” And when we make that one little pivot from, “This is a crappy problem. It’s a threat. It’s distress to,” like you said with manifestation, what in here is actually the desired outcome? What’s the future I want? Not what I’m trying to get away from, now we can pivot to the victim becomes a creator and a co-creator. You and me, boss, we’re now sitting in here as co-creators. The persecutor becomes challenger. I can speak truth to you, you can speak truth to me. And the rescuer, the fix it, give it back to me, I’ll take care of it thing transforms to the coach. Boss, you could be more like a coach in which we figure out how the team wins, but I coach you by suggesting what I see how the team wins. And this is not me manipulating you. This is me sitting in my own human reality and saying, “Uh-oh, drama, drama. I know how it works.” And then the inner game is slow it down.
Slow it down, pause, breathe, and reframe from this distress to this desired outcome and now move forward in this new, more powerful way. Share on XSo it does start with an inner move first and then it shows up in the outer way. That’s just one example of how we sit with a boss who is really struggling. At the end of the day, it might be we got to get out of dodge, because there’s no amount of stuff that we can do from where we sit to change the culture.
Yeah, and it could be from like three levels above your boss, and at some point, yeah, you got to know when to dip.
But I hope it helps that this progression to answer your brilliant question about what to do with them, with the boss that’s struggling.
Well, so I love the way you phrase that and I love the insight in that because this drama triangle that you talk about is ingrained in our culture. It’s ingrained in our movies. It’s ingrained in our politics. It’s ingrained in advertising. Almost every commercial, it’s like, “Oh, if only this weren’t happening to you because of these evil people, but look at my product. For only three easy payments of 99.95,” or whatever it is, all of a sudden, now you can have it better, so we have this so ingrained in our subconscious that I think to stop thinking about things in this drama triangle where a lot of people do like to play the role of savior or like to play the role of victim, that can be very addicting as well, does require people to stop and refresh. Is this as complicated as people kind of un-mapping subconscious patterns? Because subconscious patterns, then they just start to show up even when you make a conscious effort of saying, “I’m not gonna think about this in a drama triangle,” or, “I’m not gonna play the victim anymore,” which playing the victim is one of the most disempowering ways someone can think, and so someone can say, “I don’t wanna be the victim anymore. I don’t wanna be the victim anymore,” I understand it, but that subconscious mapping because it’s so ingrained in so many areas of our culture will come back and people all of a sudden find themselves, “Oh, wait, I’m doing it again,” like this new situation came up and my first instinct was to think about who’s persecuting me and why I’m a victim. Well, my first instinct was to suddenly be the savior of people that didn’t even ask me to save them.
Spot on. Yeah. It’s built into the culture and the culture reflects how it’s built into the psyche. They go together. And this brings up an important thing about coaching. Really good coaching does take us into those places where we are blind. We have blind spots. Call it the subconscious, call them conditioned, reactive tendencies, but we’re just literally not in our right minds. We are subject to the things that are invisible to us. We are held captive. When we can make those things object, when we can bring those dynamics into the light, then it becomes subject to us and our choice. So a good example of where this comes up in that move from the drama triangle to the empowerment dynamic, and it is a thing, and my dear friends, David Womeldorff and Donna Zajonc, they plowed all this ground, this is not original with Chris Thyberg. The move can be, I now realize that I repeat this because when I was five, I learned the way to navigate the world would be something like, like if you’re the third one – if you’re the baby in the family, be the victim, be the one everyone takes care of. That worked. Maybe if you’re the oldest, it was be the rescuer, fix things, be the smart one, be super competent. When we realized that comes from very, very, very early roots, then in coaching, we can raise that and say, hey, do you kind of wonder where that comes from and why it shows up now? Now, the difference between coaching and therapy is I don’t go back to where those wounds are and ask you to flush out those wounds and we’re going to heal them. I don’t do spiritual direction for the people who kind of see that in very – those more religious or spiritual terms, but I say let’s start from what is happening right now that you just become aware of more what’s going on in the right now, embrace it, sit with it, attend to it, rather than push it away. Now we will work on changing habits toward the future that you want to have so that deep past is important but a coach starts there and we’re always moving forward and, oftentimes, my clients really benefit from also having a therapist that can do the big down and dirty stuff that’s not mine to do.
Yeah, it sounds like it goes hand in hand. And one of the questions I often have is if people are trying to break these subconscious patterns, do often people need to distance themselves from some of these cultural phenomenon that are reinforcing these patterns of behavior, like maybe, and, obviously, I have my business around reducing the amount of doom scrolling, the amount of time spent on these addictive technological platforms, but also could be the movies, it could be politics, it could be anything, but anywhere in life where you see that drama triangle show up, honestly enlightening that you said we’ve seen that movie before, because that drama triangle is the plot to so many movies and even movie series.
Exactly. This is so good. I’ll just pick up what you said about doom scrolling. What is that but an addictive way to rescue ourselves by alleviating the stress we don’t want to be with by something else that will take the pain away for a little bit. We are self-rescuing. We have to step out of those cultural narratives, at the risk of sounding a little crazy, we’ve got to step outside of the market dynamics that want to keep us spun up in drama so they can sell us stuff we don’t need.
Yeah, they’re creating their own problem for their product.
Exactly. So that’s a good place where we just learn how to step back, literally, pause, breathe, find my body, and say, “I’m about to do that habitual behavior,” like doom scroll or a chemical or a little too much of something that’s good in moderation but not so good when super way too much, exercise or something.
Or even caffeine, yeah.
And just in those, “Oh, righty then, I’ve seen this story before.” It’s the plot since antiquity of the hero story, right? There’s the antagonist and the protagonist and all that stuff. Yeah, it’s the human condition. So, now, when we can get a little distance from it, a little space, with the breathing, the slowing it down, we can say, “Ah, what other options do I have?” and then try, and with baby steps, we just started saying, “Oh, if I did this instead, will that bring me closer really to my desired outcome?”
See, the thing about drama is when we take a reactive move out of our distress, we’re actually not solving the problem, we’re just alleviating pain. Share on X
Yeah, alleviating that short-term pain often at long-term detriment.
Yes, exactly. When we can get out of that and say, “But what’s the desired outcome? Boss, what do you really want? Boss, here’s what I really want. Here’s what our team and our enterprise says they really want.” All right, when we can pivot to that outcome orientation, then we can say, “Oh, so let’s try this different little baby step. I’ll put down the phone and I’ll do this instead.” And now we become like really curious scientists, explorers of ourselves. I never assign homework. You are an explorer. You and I will design the exploration you’re going to do where you test stuff out and you try a new move and you see how it goes and then you come back and you reassess and you turn it back into that awareness and agility increase of that inner game.
Can you rephrase, so we have the drama triangle is obviously the victim, the oppressor, and then the savior, so what are the three new roles that we’re taking on just so we can kind of reinforce that?
The victim pivots to the creator. The victim moves from, “I have no power,” to a creator who says, “I have at least some, I have the ability to determine how I will respond.” As Victor Frankl said, who suffered being in a death camp, always had the freedom to choose how he would guard his own freedom, his own response ability, his ability to respond. The victim moves to creator. The persecutor moves to challenger or truth teller. So it’s not like who’s to blame, it’s, okay, how do we figure this out and get this better? What’s actually standing in our way? Let’s look at reality with a clear, precise, clean lens. Persecutor to challenger. And the rescuer, from I will fix it to coach. How are you going to do it, Stephen? Because I know you can. So how do we figure this out? What do you need in your game? What training do you need? What time and space do you need? And a great coach is always going to replay your highlight clip, your best plays on the field, not the one where you got torched for a touchdown, the one where you were absolutely brilliant, because by seeing those and saying, “Okay, what was in there that?”
More of that. Do more of that.
“Do more of that please.” That turns the flywheel of the creation and the challenging and the coaching and the creation and the challenging and coaching and gets us out of that flywheel of victim-persecutor-rescuer, victim-persecutor-rescuer.
And I especially want to highlight the first one, the victim becoming the creator, because I feel like that’s the pattern a lot of us are on where even a lot of people who create their own businesses are the ones who did a good job of becoming the creator because a lot of businesses come out of people who observed a problem, maybe a problem they even experienced themselves, and I’m even envisioning a lot of coaches to bring in another role in there but people who have observed like, okay, I’ve had a bad boss, I’ve noticed this leadership issue of people not being trained on how to be good leaders when they move up the ranks and rather than being the victim of like, “Okay, I’m just gonna get another bad leader, I’m just gonna get into a thing, it’s gonna be like this the rest of my life,” I’m going to go out and create a business, I’m going to go out and create something myself. I’m going to go out and create something so that, although maybe I’m not going to fix the problem in its entirety, I’m going to know that I’m doing something about it and I’m going to know that I have the ability to influence it even if it is only for the few people that become my clients.
You put your finger right on my personal journey. From growing up, from my dad being my first boss in our family’s work, and not a really great boss, wonderful human, not a really great boss, and then always noticing, Stephen, those leaders where I sat up a little straighter and my shoulders were a little broader and I said, “You know what? Give me that hard thing. I know it’s beyond my skills. I also know it’s beyond my inner capacities. It’s gonna stretch me as a human, not just a worker bee,” but I knew with those leaders that they were exercising their power with me and for me and they weren’t afraid that my power would grow up in me, that I would become creative, that I would challenge appropriately back, that I would coach myself and others to greatness. They weren’t afraid of that. That’s the thing that’s called servant leadership by Robert Greenleaf. And early in my career, I said, “Oh, that’s the thing. I wanna be that kind of leader that serves you to grow up into your own greatness and into that empowered dynamic.” And so I experienced the good, the bad, and the ugly, those great leaders I wanted to be like and terrible self-serving leaders as both a worker and then a very senior leader and then going off on my own to have the serving way.
My best lessons have all been learned through the failures, through the bumps, through the hard stuff. Share on X
I love the way you point out the servant leader in the context of what you said before about how the savior becomes the coach, because when I see that pivot, I see that pivot as when someone’s a savior, it’s all about themselves, like, “Look at me. I’m saving these people. I’m speaking on behalf of these people,” whereas a coach, it’s no longer just all about yourself. You’re saying like the good coaches are the ones that play your highlight reel. So use the football analogy, I’m not showing this reel of like, oh, here I am with the headset pulling that flea flicker, to use my favorite football play. I’m the one on the headset calling that flea flicker, look at me. It’s, no, look at how you executed that block on the on the right side, look at how the tight end decoyed the defense to set up the wide receiver. It’s pointing it in a different direction and being more of a servant leader rather than a self-serving leader.
I could not have said it better. And that’s sometimes why serving leadership gets a bad rap because people think it means, “I will just serve you, Stephen. I will bubble wrap you. I’ll make sure it’s kumbaya all the time by the fireside and, don’t worry, I got this.” That actually only serves my ego. To really serve you wisely and well, I have to lead with vision and courage and purpose in whitewater conditions. We don’t even know what the right questions are much less the answers. This is really wicked complex, not just complicated. We might not all get out of this alive. We may have to pivot our business hard. There may need to be layoffs, but I, as a leader, we’re going together and I’m going out front. There’s this great African proverb that I think really sums up a true serving leader as opposed to self-serving leader, but they look like they’re a servant because they’re all about, “Hey, let me rescue, let me save.” When the way is dark and dangerous at night, the leader goes out front with a torch. When the way is calm and clear in the daylight, the leader goes in back carrying the bags. The serving leader truly knows when to be at the front. We’re going together and I’m going out there and I’ll take that first brick in the forehead because I’m the leader, and then the time to be on the back and then the time to be around the sides. That’s through serving for the sake of your growth as a professional and as a human and for the growth of our company to create real value in the world that promotes human flourishing.
Yeah, and that’s interesting because it contrasts with most people’s idea of the word “service,” because people think of the word, “I’m a servant,” they think the order taker and the cook at a restaurant serving you food, doing a bunch of tasks, or Airbnb or regular B&B, bed and breakfast, where like I’m doing your laundry, I’m ironing your shirts, that type of servant. And you’re talking about although it’s the same word, what really means as a servant leader is to just know when to be where you need to be.
Yes, that’s why I like to pivot the word to serving rather than servant.
Serving, okay.
From a noun or an adjective of servant, which, we got to be honest, carries a lot of baggage from a country that was built on the back of slavery, let’s just say it out loud. All right. Serving now becomes much more something I intentionally do to serve purposes greater than myself. It’s not a less than or a one down kind of position at all when it’s serving, when it’s about action, when it’s about attitude, when it’s about my motivation. I could not be the coach I am today had I not worked from 2016 to 2020 while I was getting my practice going, I worked as a cashier at the local Target.
Interesting.
I had nobody to lead but me. I was the bottom of the food chain. The one person to lead was me. Would I serve you to create a space where it was calm and peaceful and you were accepted without judgment and if you were having a crappy day, I’m not going to add crap. If you’re crappy to me, I won’t even add crap back. I will just create the space with no strings attached to give you the very best, not only the performance of the service, yeah, I rang your stuff up, I bagged it well, got you through the line, but this intangible vibe, oh, I was in kind of a calm little nook in the world. I found that for me to focus on what I could control, which was not the bureaucracy of Target, it was me. It wasn’t even controlling you, my guest. I could just influence by staying in my own self, making my own choices to serve the purposes of, hell, if I’m going to be having this eight-hour shift, it can be miserable or it can be something I just see the brilliance of so many different kinds of humans and I don’t know what’s your backstory right now, if I can write the next few lines in your story that are a little more peaceful and welcoming and inclusive, well, then, I’ve served a purpose for why I showed up that day for my shift and I would not be the coach who can sit with leaders at the CEO level had I not been just a lowly little Targetista cashier jockey. So everything is grist for the mill.
And then with The Serving Way, what is the purpose bigger than yourself that you are serving?
The way I like to put it now is I’m really committed to seeing leaders create conditions for flourishing at work, because we spend a lot of time there. And work, for good or ill, produces a lot of the stuff that is out there floating in the world. So my purpose is to be alongside leaders at those growth edge moments where they are truly off their pins. I mean, they’re so disoriented now that they just got that 360 that says your people think you suck and you say, “I’m doing the same thing I always did that got me promoted.” I say, yeah, that’s the thing, you’re doing the same thing.
Yeah, it’s a different job.
So that’s the purpose, to help leaders serve purposes greater than themselves, that they can create the conditions for flourishing, they can cultivate wellbeing at work for the greater purposes that that enterprise exist to serve. But a more direct and crass way is my purpose is to help work suck less one evolving, growing, maturing leader at a time.
I mean, because we’ve seen so many situations where people have bad bosses and that kind of ruins their lives in a way. I mean, and one could argue that those people are letting it ruin their life and everything like that but it takes a little bit of maturity to not let it ruin your life. I’ve said this in other episodes, our entire cultures around work sucking. I mean, think about everything we throw into it, the Sunday scaries, thank God it’s Friday, Wednesday hump day, Tuesday wing night, everything in our culture is around this idea that work is this horrible thing that you need to get through and here’s how we’re getting through the week, to have more and more people kind of break away from that and actually Sunday night just be like, “All right, well, it’s Sunday night. The weekend’s over and I’m just going to sleep and tomorrow’s gonna be a different day,” and rather than doing an around the house chore or rather than going out and having fun with my friends, I’m going to be doing my job and that’s just going to be different, not scary, not worse, just different, would be an amazing thing.
And having said that, I also always want to say with clients and the pain really is painful. The suck really sucks. This is not Pollyanna rose-colored glasses. This is a bit more like the Buddha said, face it, life will have suffering. It just comes.
Where we create pain for ourselves is when we can’t sit with the discomfort that life brings. Share on XWhen we try to push away what we don’t like and we resist it, we just inflict more pain on ourselves. When we try to cling to and hold on to what we do like, we just create more pain for ourselves. But as you said, it takes a tremendous amount of psychic, personal, spiritual maturity to say, “Oh, wait a second, I’m gonna sit with reality as it is and find my way through what is either attractive or what has aversion to me. I’m going to sit my way through that and find the equanimity, the equally balanced, integrated way to be with reality as it is,” because that’s all they is, is reality. That’s it. That’s the hand of cards. We can either play it skillfully or not. And so I do want to say to people listening who think I’m kind of being super Pollyanna and positivity guy, nope, nope, I sit with people when they’re crying and saying, “I’ve never said this to another human being but I don’t think I can do this anymore.” And they find their way.
And that escaping will only lead to bad results, only prolong the suffering, and sometimes leads to, well, debilitating addictions of all kinds. So, Chris, I just want to thank you for joining us on Action’s Antidotes today. Before we go, if anyone out here listening did just get that 360 review or is kind of in a new role or looking to get promoted to leadership and wants to kind of work with you or explore working with you, is there a good way someone can get a hold get a hold of you?
Yes, check out the website first, theservingway.com.
Okay, theservingway.com.
Right. And when you go there, here’s the thing, see if you can see yourself. See if, in some weird way, I’m already channeling the challenges and struggles you’re with, that I somehow already get you. Because this is never about the coach. This is always a trusted relationship because it is the client who does all the work. I’m the midwife, it’s your baby. The LinkedIn profile is under my name, Chris Thyberg, that’s very robust. And then the next step is just book a free exploratory conversation. It is not a sales conversation, because as I said, coaching is all about this trusted relationship so I’m simply going to let you share your story and reflect on what you’ve shared and then what you want and why you want it and what’s getting in your way now and then, if there’s a good fit, we’ll dance together. And if not, I’ve had a splendid conversation with a splendid human so that’s how we roll at The Serving Way, from the sales all the way up, it’s all about serving you first.
Well, that’s a wonderful attitude to have, so The Serving Way, go check it out if you’re interested. And I would also like to thank everybody out there listening today for tuning in to Action’s Antidotes, taking your time to hear some of these stories about people who are pursuing their passions but also how these passions are helping create a better world for everybody. And until next time, have a wonderful day.
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About Chris Thyberg
Chris is the Founder and Leadership Coach of The Serving Way.
In the ever-evolving landscape of leadership, Chris specializes in guiding emerging and experienced leaders, as well as those in transition, across diverse sectors. His unique approach, known as The Serving Way, is designed to help not just meet, but transcend current leadership challenges.
Chris is on a mission to cultivate joy at work, one growing leader at a time. His coaching declaration serves as a compass, ensuring that leaders can harness their capacity, power, and wholeness to pursue great purposes.
Chris employs a range of powerful tools, including assessments, personalized 1:1 coaching, small team engagement, group coaching, facilitation, and retreats. His methodology extends to peer coaching groups, fostering a coaching mindset that enhances leadership effectiveness.