When starting a business, there are several key things to consider, like marketing strategies and financial planning. In the early stages, it’s crucial to reach a wide audience to make your business known. What are some effective ways to make an impact and connect with potential clients?
Join us in this episode with Nicole Grinnel, an entrepreneur, CEO, and podcast host. We discussed the benefits of guesting on podcasts, especially for early-stage businesses for growth and connection, as well as having an entrepreneurial mindset and remote work flexibility, such as virtual assistants.
Tune in to gain valuable insights!
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Podcasting as a Business Growth Strategy with Nicole Grinnell
Welcome to Action’s Antidotes, your antidote to the mindset that keeps you settling for less. I’ve advocated quite a bit on this podcast about kind of embracing a new way of thinking and I think one of the things that we’ve often thought about in the past is that when someone is doing something similar to what you’re doing, you see them as a competitor, as someone that’s kind of possibly occupying your space. But there’s a saying that the market’s only saturated when you’re trying to be someone else and it’s not necessarily saturated with you. So, I’m always here to support other people on the same journey, and the journey I’m talking about today is showcasing the stories of people who start their businesses or showcasing the stories of people who follow their passions very much here. So, my guest today, Nicole Grinnell, is the host of Mic’d Up, another podcast, as well as a two-time business founder.
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Nicole, welcome to the program.
Thanks so much for having me, Stephen. I’m excited to be here.
Well, thank you so much for popping on. And let’s first start by talking about Mic’d Up. Now, your podcast has been around for quite some time, even longer than this one.
Yeah. So we have, obviously, like our actual show, and then we really serve as a booking agency to get other people on podcasts, which is a way that we’ve actually grown multiple businesses and supported a lot of businesses in that effort and so we really want to do much like the purpose of your show is show other ways that businesses can grow through different avenues and what other people have done and that’s what Mic’d Up plans to do.
Nice. And so I guess the first question I have for you about that is, if someone is starting a business or trying to get any of their initiatives noticed, and I want to be all inclusive, not every initiative is a business but want to get something noticed, how should someone be thinking about podcasts? I hear people have advocating, say, start your own podcast or try to be on other podcasts. What’s the best way for someone to think through a strategy as far as building their business that involves the podcasting medium?
So, it’s funny because I always say there’s a time and place for either of those. It really depends on the stage you’re at in business. So, when you are just starting out and you’re really trying to build your name, build pipelines, build relationships, that’s a great time to be in a guesting space because, really, what happens is the show is all about you. So, I compare it to having someone over for dinner. What’s easier, being the guest or being the host? When you’re the guest, it’s all about you, they’re doing all the prep, the legwork, they’re promoting it, they’re all of this, that’s really what guesting can be. When you’re in the hosting space, that’s a great time for when you are a seasoned entrepreneur, a seasoned professional, business is running, you’ve got some great pipelines and now you’re kind of at that stage that you want to give back and you want to be able to naturally connect. That’s a great time to be a host. So it really depends on that scale that you’re in and what that looks like for you.
And with businesses and people that, say, start their own podcast to support their business, do you recommend kind of keeping it to the topic of the business? Because I think I’ve encountered a lot of people who, if your business is about, say, accounting, the podcast is also about accounting.
We tell our clients, and this is something that I try to do even with ours, is it’s not a commercial, it’s a connection. So, you’re really there to talk about your background, who you are, the purpose, the why. Of course, your business is going to come up in that but people want to understand who they’re working with, they want to learn from your experiences, they want to resonate with you on something. For instance, a lot of times when I’m doing shows, I’m talking about my entrepreneurial background and growing up in a small business. People will resonate with that. They’ll be like, “I understand that and I know the type of work ethic you’re gonna have having that background.” So, we want to make the connection.
We want to really showcase who you are and the purpose of your company and the why of what you do. Share on X
And so are you talking exclusively about connecting with the guests that you’re interviewing or are you also talking about connecting with the audience who are listening?
Both. So, most of the times when you are going on, the host is having a set audience and what we really do is, with our guests, we try to find those audiences that they want to either develop or further in those pipelines, but the host is almost a representative of that audience. So, making a really good connection with that host that can lead to some great referrals, some really great introductions, that’s really key. But the audience is obviously going to be that passive listener that’s going to get to hear and be like, “You know what, either I have a need for this and I really resonate with this or I know someone that might and let me send them the show and connect them that way,” so it really hits on both fronts.
Let’s just take the earlier stage example when you’re saying be a guest when you’re first starting and, say, you have a business and you’ve been a guest on six podcasts, are these interviews oftentimes serving as a good way for someone to introduce their services to customers and say like, “Hey, you wanna know more about my business? Check out, I was on such and such podcast and check out this interview and that’ll give you a good idea about whether or not you wanna consider working with me.”
Absolutely. So, the fringe benefits of podcasts I found out very early on, most business owners struggle with, “Okay, how do I market my business? How do I get my message out there? How can I get in front of more audiences?” and podcasts kind of became this one-stop shop. So, I was making great connections with the hosts, obviously, the audience, listeners, but then I had this amazing content that was not only helping my marketing efforts, my SEO, everything was linked back to our website, but I had great content to use in my sales cycle so I could splice that down, and in my world, what that would look like is, “Hey, John, I know we talked about that it’s really hard for you to delegate, I wanted to send you over this show where I talked about great ways for entrepreneurs to delegate.” So, I’ve not only provided a value and an education to a potential client but I’m also establishing myself as that expert and they’re getting to hear in another perspective, of on a show, of really, in my own words, what that would look like. That’s a huge benefit and that’s really something we coach our clients on is this content is gold and you really need to make sure that you’re utilizing it.
You said that you started this podcast, did you say eight years ago?
Yeah. So I have a staffing company and we worked with a lot of small business owners and they, just like we talked about, they struggled with that. So, about eight years ago, we got into getting people on as guests but we were doing it kind of as this underground service and staffing where we would hear somebody that might need some help and we were like, “You know what, we do this, we can help you out,” and it was just really, really successful. And so I was actually listening to a How I Built This podcast and they were talking about making sure that in your businesses, that your service lines are very clear and they make sense with your purpose and I was like, “This doesn’t make sense. It doesn’t make sense in staffing. Why are we doing this?” So we launched Mic’d Up fully about two years ago. So, we’ve been in this playground and we feel like we’ve grown up in podcasts, but Mic’d Up has been online for about two years now.
Starting Mic’d Up, what was your process like getting it from the point of idea to the point of where it’s an actual, tangible entity that’s out there for the world to listen to?
Any entrepreneur mind is seeing the gap and then knowing a way to fill it and so what I knew after listening to the show was like, okay, no one knows that I can fill this gap because it doesn’t belong in staffing. Starting a business, honestly, feels very easy to me, I kind of know the mechanics and the operations of getting it up to speed. It’s a lot less capital and work that a lot of people even realize. I mean, you can start with a great idea and build from there. You don’t need to have the full office suite. I always tell people when they’re starting don’t even worry about a business card, just get your first client.
So, get a good presence, have your service lines clearly defined, and then go get a client, and everything else will come from there. Share on XSo that’s really where we started. We went to our current client base in staffing and said, “Hey, we’re launching this sister company, this is what we do really well, we’ve been doing it for a while, and now you can actually book with us over here.”
And I want to expand a little bit on this whole, it doesn’t take as much time, it doesn’t take as much capital, because I think that’s a hurdle that a lot of people, a lot of people listening may be encountering, “Here’s where I am, here’s what I think I need to get to, I need to find an investor, I need to find this, this, and that,” and the checklist in your head can get infinite, forever. So, what are some practices that you either advocate for your clients or use yourself to avoid that line of thinking from seeping in and getting you into this whole almost stuck mode?
Yeah. Jesse Itzler has a really great clip that I’ve seen multiple times and I love it, because he did a whole thing with a shared private plane company, I’m totally blanking on the name, and he said, “I had no aviation experience, I knew nothing about this world, I just thought this would be a cool thing,” and he said, “If I had sat down and gone, well, you’re gonna have to get an FAA license, you’re gonna have to get this, you’re gonna –” he was like, “I would have talked myself out of it. But instead, I knew I had an idea and I started with step one. What’s step one? I need to make some contacts. I need to figure out how I can get in this. And then I just went from there.” Don’t think of all the things that have to get done and the million-dollar checklist, take it as one step at a time and don’t talk yourself out of it. I mean, if you really believe that it’s a need, you will find a way to get it done.
And you also talked a bit about the entrepreneurial mindset of like I see a gap and then I see a way of filling it. Do you believe that this is a mindset that kind of comes naturally to some people or do people cultivate it? And is there someone or something that someone can do to try to cultivate that mindset of actually seeing things and you see this gap and rather than just complain about it are what most people do, I’m going to actually start doing something to fill it?
Yeah, I think it almost feels like a little bit of that nature-nurture thing, like I don’t know what came first is the mindset or cultivating it, but I think if you are looking for that and are ready to start that, the biggest thing I see that holds people back is the risk, and, typically, it’s the fear of failure but I really think that’s really tied to ego.
It really does. I mean, and I think most people, and I know that you and I were chatting before this, talking about loving to hear from people who’ve done it, you don’t look down on anyone that’s failed. You’re like, “Man, that was awesome. I bet you’ve learned a lot. That’s so cool. What a great experience.” You don’t look at them and be like, “Man, I can’t believe that business didn’t work out.” The people that are criticizing, they’ve never taken that step. So, when you kind of go in that context and be like, “Man, good for you,” obviously, there’s a level of risk and being wise and your financial situation and all those things but I think if you really believe in what you want to do and you really believe that it’s filling a gap and you have the ability to start that, go for it. And it doesn’t matter, even if you fail, you’re going to learn, you’re going to meet people, it’s going to be an awesome experience that you’ll love.
And you talk about removing the ego and something that you’ve done a long time ago. I know you’re a two-time founder, you have your staffing business, what was your process in removing that ego? Because I feel like, like in teenage years, especially, everyone at some point has that ego.
Yeah, and, I mean, I’m not sitting here like sainthood by any means. We all have a level of that, for sure, but I think if you are just so focused on your purpose and knowing the why and how you want to treat people along the way and how you want to serve and all of that becomes noise and you’re not influenced by thinking, “Well, what are people gonna think of me? What if they think this is dumb? What if I fail?” so when your self and ego is not at the center of it, it just gets a lot easier and your path gets clearer because you’re not stopped by going, “Ugh, but what if this doesn’t work out? What if I make a bad decision?” You’re going to. You’re going to. There’s just no way around it, so just get past that and pick yourself back up and learn from it and move forward.
And so which was the first business that you founded?
So the staffing company.
Okay.
We started as essentially virtual assistants and now we’ve morphed into full-fledged, every level of staffing from headhunting, direct hire, and fractional.
Okay. And so when you first founded the staffing business, what was your driving purpose? What kind of kept you, as you said, your method, out of that ego and prevented you from talking yourself out of it and all those other risk things that people kind of fall prey to in their own head?
None of that actually ever entered my mind. In fact, if you ask my husband or friends, I probably have like naive optimism, like I’m definitely more that person, like, “What’s the worst that can happen? We can do this, we can do anything.” I’m more of that person by nature so I think it really was just more figuring out how we were going to get clients, how the logistics of things were going to work. But it started with, I had actually exited my corporate career, the executive that I was assisting retired, and so I was like, well, maybe I could be a virtual assistant, and then that’s where the gap came because within about a week, I had about 10 to 15 clients wanting to utilize me as a virtual assistant and then it was like the wheels started turning like, “Oh, this is a gap in the marketplace. We don’t have this,” and so that’s when we flipped it. I got out of it and started becoming more operational and sales and developing the business.
And is there a certain set of practices that either help or hurt someone’s ability to observe that? Because you looked at it and you made that connection, like, “Oh, this is a gap,” and some people might not realize this gap. Is there something someone can do to kind of hone that skill, that mental ability?
That’s a good question. I don’t know because I’ve worked with a lot of people and I find that there are people that generally have a lens of opportunities and then there are people that generally have a lens that they’re like, “This is my life, this is my box, I don’t see what you’re seeing.” And those people are typically hard to work with entrepreneurs because we will throw ideas against the wall all day long and those people are typically like, “That’s not gonna work. I’ve already tried that a long time ago,” and we have a mindset of like, “But what if it works now? What if this guy calls back?” So I don’t know that you can necessarily train that. I think you can improve on it. I think you can start seeing and honing in, specifically like with sales, right? So, some people are like, “Well, I’ve tried that before, it didn’t work.” “Well, let’s try it again. Let’s look at this,” trying to train people on looking for opportunities, but I think there is a level of it’s just kind of who you are and seeing those opportunities in front of you.
At what point do you advocate, if someone tries something that doesn’t work, try something that doesn’t work, finding that line between giving up too early on something because it didn’t happen to work in, say, the first three or four scenarios versus, say, trying something for too long, that’s like just never going to take or likely not going to take because it needs some kind of rethinking, readjustment?
I’ll give this example, objections that are not necessarily based on the principle but based in dynamics going on. So, for instance, a long time ago, we really thought that we paired very, very well with coworking spaces. They had fractional, essentially, coworking tenants, we had fractional team members. These should naturally go along. It creates a sticky client for them, right? Like, “I’m gonna keep my membership longer if my team comes in here.” We were really, really committed to that idea. And mostly what we were finding was there was some dynamic in the coworking space that we were coming against, whether it was leadership, whether it was somebody knew somebody in staffing that it couldn’t work out. Those ideas, I thought, well, then you’re just not talking to the right person. Keep going until somebody goes, “Yes, actually, I get this, I believe in it.” Nobody was coming back to us and going, “No, that’s a dumb idea. People would never want team members, that doesn’t,” it was always something in their own minutiae that was blocking it. Until we got in front of someone that was like, “Yeah, I get it, and this is awesome, because this guy’s not gonna leave me if his bookkeeper/admin/social media person is also through me.” So then that’s when it goes. If you’re constantly getting, you know, here’s why this isn’t a great idea, or your pricing is off, or this wouldn’t function for this audience, maybe take some time to dig into that and do your own research. But, you know, I forgot who has this line but it’s like if you keep getting no, then you’re just not talking to the right person. Wait till you get to the yes. So there is an element of that as well.
Yeah. And it sounds like also, you’re alluding to an element of like the difference between giving up and adjusting, being like, “Okay, this was never a good idea or it’s just not working,” versus, “All right, maybe I need to talk to different people or talk to people in a different type of way or make some sort of tweak to the program or what my offering is.”
Yeah, exactly. That’s exactly it.
And then you said that you were in the corporate world first. Were your first 10 to 15 clients that you mentioned also corporate or did it go right into the entrepreneurial space where you find yourself now?
A little bit of both. So my first client was actually a pretty large corporation, that one of the executives needed an admin but they really didn’t want to hire a full-time person and so I kind of became this shared resource. And then referrals just kept coming in from there and they were more in that, “Hey, I know a guy, he runs a business, X, Y, Z, he’s looking for someone to handle phones and calendaring and inbox,” and so that’s where I realized, okay, there’s this gap in that we had, at that time, about eight years ago, virtual assistants, which was typically seen as overseas, really, people were not utilizing it, but what I saw was they need everything back in the house fractionally so they need a bookkeeper, they need social media, so what we wanted to build is like, “Okay, business owner, you can build your entire company in this fractional model as opposed to just thinking I can have an option for a virtual assistant that’s overseas,” and so that’s where that gap came in.
So you saw that gap. And then, as you started filling those gaps for the first 10 to 15 clients and then started getting more and more referrals, what was the delta, the difference in the experience between someone who either had the virtual assistant overseas they weren’t using or were trying to go by some sort of more traditional model, we all know fractional resources are a little bit of a of a deviance from the standard, everyone needs to be a 40-hour-a-week in-house employee, versus someone that was using your service and using the fractional services that you started offering and are still offering today?
On the fractional side, what differentiates us from virtual assistants is we’re every type of role as opposed to just traditional admin and we really are trying to recruit team members for our clients that are long term. So they still get the look and feel of having a long-term team member, investing in them, all of those things, but it’s done in that fractional space. For the client side, the biggest kind of mind shift we were trying to do is what you typically see is an entrepreneur that waits until he has the budget to hire one person and then he wants that person to be everything from their accountant to their creative to their admin and that person just doesn’t exist. So, either that person is unsatisfied or they’re not doing it well because no one has all of those skill sets, right? And so they kind of fall into that trap. Or they’re pushing it on to other employees. “So I know you’re our accountant but would you mind doing some social media posts three times a week?” And so we wanted to say, okay, don’t do either of those, just as those needs bubble up, bring in a fractional team member. It’s as little as five hours a week. So, as you’re going, “Hey, we’ve got a social media gap now, we need a better presence,” great, let’s bring in Sally and Sally is a creative and she’s going to do amazing and she’s going to completely lead that for five hours a week. And so that was kind of what we were trying to train potential clients on is there is an alternate way of growing your company.
The standard work culture can sometimes be a little bit inflexible, in the same way that you said, it’s like, okay, either you try to do everything yourself, not spend the money and then now you’re trying to do all these little tasks that are adding three hours a week here, five hours a week there, ten hours a week there, to the point where you’re exhausted or you’re trying to bring on someone and then make them a little bit more all purpose than they want to be or, in some way, you’re making someone be different than who they really are and what they’re really good at. So, as you started working with all these people, you encountered these different things, what made you make the jump to the podcast? Was it getting people onto the podcast? Was that something that came pretty early or was that something that came after a little bit more experience?
Yeah, so, again, back to just hearing needs, so we had such relationships with our clients that we were almost serving as business coaches so when they would talk to us about, “Yeah, Sally’s doing great but, I mean, I really need a way to do more exposure, I don’t have a $10,000 Google ad spend, I need a way to get my name out there,” and it was like, well, we have – and I can’t even take credit for it. We had a client that was like, “Have you ever gotten anyone on podcast?” and I was like, “You know, we haven’t, but I’ll give it to you significantly discounted for you to be our guinea pig and we’ll try this,” and it was just kind of game busters. And then about three or four years ago, we were like, okay, we need to use this for ourselves, and that really became my number one marketing effort. But it was, again, just like how can we get creative and help our clients and figure this out for them?
And how many of your clients go on podcast? Like is it half of them? Is it just a small group of them?
Oh, man. Over the years, I would probably say between like what Mic’d Up is doing now, maybe 20 percent of them, and people will go in waves. If they’re looking for budget and time, a six-month sprint of podcasts is great because that’s really going to give you like a year to a year and a half of consistent content dropping for you so it’s a great way, like I always say summer is a great time. Everybody gets that summer slowdown, invest in doing some podcasts, then you’ve got great content going out all year for you. So we’ll have clients come on, come back on. We do a lot of authors so they may come back on with another book launch. So, we see them kind of cycle in and out based on what’s going on with their own business and their own efforts.
And so you have clients come on other podcasts, podcasts like this one as well as your own podcast?
Correct, yeah.
So in kind of booking people for your own podcast, is it just people who are your clients or do you kind of bring on other guests from outside your client base?
Yeah, so we do all over, every industry, and, really, our primary focus is getting them on other shows that fit their niche. So, if we have an author that’s coming in, talking about health and wellness, we want to get them in that environment so that they are listening to listeners that will be potential clients to them.
Yeah. Okay, yeah, so there’s like specific niches behind the podcast. Have you ever had someone approach you about being on your podcast and had to say, “This might not be the right fit”?
Yeah, absolutely. And we get that even from the host side, but, yeah, we’ll have clients come in and say, “These are exactly who I want to be on,” and we’ll kind of explain to them, “That’s really not gonna be successful because of X, Y, Z,” or, “Let’s look at these other avenues.”
But that’s really the only time we get into kind of sticky situations with clients is when they’re really kind of dead set on who that audience should be and how many should be there.
Okay, yeah, so they’re like really all about the numbers. And is that a concept that applies to other aspects of business? Because we’re talking about content creation, connections as well, but, in general, can some business owners be so attached to numbers, say, even like number of leads from a certain endeavor, that they kind of miss out on some of the important aspects of it?
Yeah, I think when it comes to sales, you’re also evaluating how successful those relationships are, how much time they are. I mean, you could get a hundred headaches out the wazoo, right? So even taking time to really evaluate, okay, but what’s most profitable? What works well with our team? Who’s really aligned with what our services are and quality over quantity, for sure. I mean, there may be some where you’re like, “Yeah, I get a hundred of them,” but if I really do the math on all the labor and the headaches and the problems that came with it, we’re only making a 10 percent margin where this guy sends quality people, they’re easy to work with and we’ve got a 50 percent margin. So, you definitely need to be evaluating that as you’re growing. And sometimes it can be hard because you’re just seeing cash come in. They’re like, “Well, this is working,” you’re like, yeah, but what does the backend look like? Like how much is this worth?
Then the question is like what toll is it taking on you if –
Exactly.
– not worth it, because you can make all the money in the world but if it like kills you in the process.
Kills you, exactly. That’s what I mean. And we’ve all had those moments where you’re like, “I shouldn’t have done this deal. I can’t take this from you know but you’ve got to fulfill it,” but it’s, yeah, you definitely want to learn from that.
Now, in your business and in your podcast, is there certain types of people that you tend to lean into more with regards to who you work with or who you don’t work with?
Yeah, we’re pretty industry agnostic, in that sense. We do a lot of anybody that’s really looking to be a thought leader, so coaches, authors, and that’s a great space for them to really get their message out. Anyone certainly that can serve nationwide, if you’re not geographically restricted, that’s great, other than if you’re trying to promote yourself as a thought leader in some way, right? So I’m going to use that content. But I would say if you are open up to serving anyone and you’re not in that geographical restriction, it’s a great way for any business owner.
And so when you talk about geographical restriction, now, how does time zone as well as national borders impact that restriction? Because I know East Coast and West Coast, we have parts a little bit but then when you talk about the other side of the world, India, Pakistan, it could be a little bit more of just a natural barrier that pops up.
The time zone thing doesn’t necessarily matter. Podcasts are evergreen so people are listening at all hours, they’re not live events. And, again, it’s back to just that content. But, yeah, I mean, certainly if you have no way of serving anything overseas and that’s their primary audience, unless it’s a speaker or content that you really want to get out there, I don’t know that we would necessarily strategize to do that. But having said that, I’ve done a lot of podcasts that are overseas and it still is great content. We are able to serve overseas but, obviously, that’s not my prime demographic. There’s really no bad experience in podcasts of getting your message out and being able to repurpose that content, and every host has a different angle so it’s a really great way to have different, giving a full, well-rounded picture of who you are and who the business is.
Yeah. And, obviously, there’s also the conversational back and forth with the host, right?
Exactly.
And so different conversations are going to naturally bring out different aspects of a business, whereas like a podcast like mine is going to talk more about your personal brand, your personal story. You also talked a little bit about more of these industry-specific podcasts that are getting a little more into the nitty gritty of like what your knowledge base is and what specific things that you do for your clients.
Exactly, yeah.
So is sometimes your aim with some of your clients to balance that out a little bit? You’re buying the service but you’re also kind of buying the person so if you think about someone that’s like, okay, I need to know that you have the knowledge base but I also need to know that you’re the type of person I want to work with, so is it about like kind of finding a more broad podcast like this but also a more specific industry one so that people can kind of see both of these important aspects of what makes a client actually want to work with someone?
I will get asked a lot, like what makes a relationship not successful in this and it’s really just being open minded. I mean, you’re going to be working with your direct podcast booking coach so we want to hear feedback. I mean, I’ve been on some wild shows, I’ll be honest. I’m kind of the guinea pig for everything. So, we want to hear your feedback. How was the host? Were you able to talk through about referrals and building relationships? We even teach them on follow-ups as well. Trust the process, be open to what we’re suggesting, because our goal is for you to have a real ROI in this experience.
And I don’t mean to necessarily go there but have you had some wild experiences that turned out poorly? Have you had some feedback that made you like either not want to have any one of your clients to want to go anymore or advised the clients to say, “Hey, there’s certain things you shouldn’t do when you go on a podcast”?
So the wild experiences are probably just the format of the show. I had one that was literally like I was on like a trivia game show and I was like, “What is even happening to me right now?” So there’s been some experiences like that. But typically, if someone is a podcast host, they are at a space of wanting to connect and to give back. They really are. They’re wanting to build relationships so 99 percent of the shows, the host are so kind and wanting to really get me introduced to people. For sure, you’re going to have a wildcard but that’s where you want to work with our agents. Of course, we’ve been doing this now eight years so when we get a new guest in, we kind of know, “Okay, this person would be amazing for Brad,” or, “This show has got to take them on,” so we have those relationships and connections to know this is going to be fruitful for you and that helps us a lot as well. Even on the sales call, I’m like, “Oh, I already know who you need to get connected with and this guy is gonna be great for you,” so, yeah, absolutely.
These two businesses, do they go together in the sense that like when someone’s looking for staffing, you’re thinking about, “Okay, do we need to get them booked on podcasts?” and if someone’s like looking to get booked on podcasts, do you think, “Okay, how’s their staffing look?”
Yeah, a little bit, actually. I mean, they do kind of go hand in hand, which is how they naturally started. So, on the staffing side, when we’re working with a client that’s using us in fractional, inevitably, as part of our check-ins, we’re like talking to them like, “What are your growth plans? What does this look like? What are your marketing efforts? We can either serve you in a social media capacity, have you looked at podcasting?” so they definitely run hand in hand. And then as we’re meeting guests and they’re all in this business owner setting or they have some type of business that they have, we absolutely have those conversations of, “What are your growth plans? Do you need any talent?” so they are very compatible to each other.
One thing I really love about this is that there’s oftentimes this pressure to do one thing and one thing only and I get that whole being focused but, sometimes, you have a couple of different endeavors that are most certainly related and they most certainly serve the same purpose so you kind of bring this all together. You have a lot of different relationships that you’re managing, whether it be with your clients, with the people who you supply staffing wise, your employees, as well as the podcast hosts that you talk to regularly about getting people booked. Is there a good way that you can manage all of those relationships and approach all those relationships?
Yeah, it’s a lot, right?
Yeah, exactly.
I mean, really, just – I think communication is key, for sure, and really just making sure that everyone that comes through our doors, whether it’s through Bosun, whether it’s through Mic’d Up, feels that they have a lifeline to reach out to us and talk through those relationships. And then we do a lot of coaching and have relationship managers and podcast booking agents that are direct with our clients so that they always feel that they have a way to reach out and we’re coaching them to make sure that it’s successful for them.
Well, that’s awesome. And are you the kind of person, personally reflecting, that naturally loves kind of building and nurturing relationships in general?
For sure. Absolutely, yeah. I mean, I literally love connecting people and kind of have that, like, I know a guy personality of like let me help you out and connect you with somebody so absolutely. And I think it goes back to seeing a need and filling it. So if somebody comes up to me and they’re like, “I’m really trying to find a pair,” I’m probably going to be like, “Let me send you somebody. I know this guy or let me connect you,” so it’s definitely my personality, for sure.
And is this a personality trait that you realize kind of right from the start in your own career journey, say, even before you started any of these businesses that you say, “Okay, whatever I do in life, I’m gonna want this to be a part of it”?
I think it was probably a little bit organic in that being an administrative or an executive assistant, you really are having to manage a lot of relationships and dynamics and you kind of have to take on that personality of figuring out a way to get things done, whether it’s for your executive or goals that they have. I mean, even simple things like, “I’m sorry, you gotta make good friends with those IT Helpdesk people immediately,” and your executives are going to have people coming in so I would often, like I always brought them the leftover lunches. If I knew I was going to need them because we’d have a whole executive team coming from New York and I was going to need them to be at my beck and call that day, coming in fresh that morning with doughnuts, right? “Hey, guys, I’m really gonna need you today, I wanna feed you,” so I think that’s a lot of my background in being an EA is just getting what you want out of people to accomplish the goal and really finding a way to do that.
And have you had to learn some lessons about relationship building and relationship fostering through some missteps early on where you kind of take note and make some adjustments?
That’s a good question. I mean, for sure, I’ve definitely made missteps, by all means, but, yeah, I think it’s just really trying to be honed in on each individual and what makes them motivated and really trying to play to that.
I think the biggest thing you can do in management or relationship or anything is just be so generous with giving credit and being thankful. Share on XSo, the last thing you want to be is taking credit for anything that anyone’s done. So, be genuine, like, you know, “Yeah, I got this done for you, boss, but Bob totally helped me with this. Man, I can’t tell you how much of a help he was in getting this. Next time you see him, give him a high five in the hall because he was huge with this.” And that only makes you look better. So, be generous with your compliments, be generous with giving credit where it’s due, and people will notice that and they will be more inclined to help you with that because they know you’re not out for yourself. Again, just take yourself out of it. Life is so much easier when you take yourself out of it.
Reflecting on how that kind of comes full circle to something we talked about at the beginning of the episode about the ego, because it possibly is the ego that is preventing some people from giving that credit.
I can’t tell you enough about just working not unto yourself or having an opportunist mindset or just always being this like scratch and claw, out for me, like you are blocking blessings, like you truly are, and I can’t tell you how many times that I have been humbled to the bottom or know that someone is taking credit for whatever or I should have gotten this and you just eat it and move on because you are only accountable for yourself at the end of the day. And then blessings that come from that years down the road even, right? I mean, my husband is in this scenario right now where he did not take an offer that was significant for him about three years ago because he really felt that he needed to be there to help his team and it’s now come full circle and he’s been recruited for this amazing dream position. That wouldn’t have happened if he was just like, “Oh, I’m out for me.” So we both operate that way and I would encourage everyone to don’t scratch and claw for the dollar, the blessings will flow if you are just ready to serve and help others.
And is part of that also delayed gratification?
A hundred percent. A hundred percent.
Yeah. That’s something I can’t stress enough because even like building something, whether it be entrepreneurship or business, or even just building connections in your community, always take some element of delayed gratification because you’re not going to see something right away.
No, and if you start entrepreneurship with thinking I’m in this for the money, you are going to be sorely disappointed. And not that money won’t come, you are going to give off that vibe and people are going to feel it, they’re going to see it, you’re going to sense it, they’re going to see that you’re only here to make a deal. Walk into an event ready to give, ready to share. That’s where that comes from. We all know that guy. We all know the guy that comes in and is like, “I only wanna talk to you if you’re ready to close the deal,” and they’re looking elsewhere, right? Don’t be that person.
Yeah.
You’re never going to get far in life with that.
The person that puts you right into their sales funnel before being –
Exactly. You’re just like, no, just – I mean, I’ve been there where it’s like they clearly realize I’m not a sale and they’re just looking else – you know, they’re just trying to get – it’s like don’t be that. You’re shooting yourself in the foot.
And with your initiatives, with both of them, how they’re connected, what are you in it for? What is the impact you’re hoping to have?
Yeah. So when I first started it, it was really, you know, when I had my children, I stayed at home. I left corporate world to be with them. And this was circa 2006. And there was really nothing out there. You either worked or you didn’t. I mean, this was before a lot of technology. So I was always finding weird things to do. Like I had a cell phone for a driving school and I would take it with me everywhere and I would answer his calls and schedule appointments. So I always kind of had these like side hustles that still allowed me to be where I wanted to be but could try to bring in some money. So really, my why at the beginning was just giving other women opportunities. I knew so many people in my sphere that were amazing professionals that were now essentially displaced from the workplace because the environment and technology didn’t exist then but still had a lot that they could give. And so this was a really cool way to give that, and our main mission was like even if this is only vacation money or buy a car, we knew these weren’t serious careers, but it was a way to contribute while also keeping whatever their family goals were.
Well, interesting, because one of the things that I observed with new moms was that there was like two different paths. One side, I’m still at my job and I’m still trying to also connect and bond with my new child and that creates exhaustion. And the other side, which I would often refer to as, “This is wonderful but I need to have an adult conversation with someone.”
Right. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. And so I was like, well, why can’t they be merged? And not in a way like we can have it all, because I don’t actually believe that. I don’t think you can do both well, by any means, and I’m somebody who gets stretched pretty thin. But I think that there was a way to compromise and say, okay, well how can you still be present at home or wherever that looks like. I mean, as we grew, it became people that wanted to travel, it became military moms that never could keep a job because they were constantly being moved around based on their husbands’ deployments. It was the nesters that were like, “Hey, I don’t wanna be a career woman but I was an amazing marketing executive and I would love to do that.” So it grew beyond moms and it grew into women that just wanted a different way of being able to work and to provide for their families.
You talk about way back in 2006, so it seems like it didn’t come until like 14, 15 years later but this kind of movement now around being a little bit more flexible in work paradigms, even, where do you see that going over time and serving some of the people with wanting, as you said, a different setup than just the standard, okay, 40 hours a week at an office, same job, blah, blah, blah?
I get this kind of question a lot and the in office and everything. My personal feeling is that I think employers should be able to dictate what they want for their company. I don’t think this should be a mandated thing by the government or anything else. I think you as a business owner have the right to decide what your culture is going to be and what that looks like. I think there are certainly roles that are needed to be in office. I think there are places where brainstorming and collaboration. One piece that I’ve learned from seeing some of my own friends who have children now entering is the difference and the things that they’re lacking in these college grads that are in internships. Think of everything that you learned in being an internship or first-time employee. Dynamics, working with people. Well, to bring that all online as your first career, it’s a very different experience, right? And there’s also a lot of opportunities that are missed. I mean, how are you supposed to stand out as a 22-year-old online when you have one direct report? I moved around in multiple departments in my first years because people saw me and they were like, “Hey, we would love to have you over here.” So I think there’s tons of dynamics in that. But I think, overall, as a culture, we’ve moved to people want options, they want to be able to decide what that looks like for them, and we as employers just have to know that whatever you set in motion may eliminate some of the talent and the workforce based on what they’re looking for.
Yeah, like so if you’re an employer that wants everyone back in office, obviously, the web dev that is set on a remote job, it’s just not going to be an option. The same way if you’re a very loose person that wants everything remote, the person that wants that face-to-face interaction maybe, you were talking about the 24-year-old, 22-year-old, that’s like, “I need face time, I need the exposure with everyone so I can learn about all my options,” might not be an option for you.
Exactly. And I think even in the business owner seat and when you’re deciding it, just be very open minded to that too, don’t be so stuck in your ways on either side, but just really think, okay, but how does this affect culture? How does this affect that role? Can we give on this? I mean, we’re in recruiting, right? So we have to do the same thing, like this guy is stellar, like the fact that he needs to be remote on Fridays is not going to impact you, and walking through that. So just be open minded. But, bottom line, everyone wants flexibility, everyone wants control and options, and that’s really where the marketplace has moved.
Yeah. And, finally, I do want to ask you, if anyone out here listening is interested in connecting with you, whether it be getting on podcasts or as a business owner needing staffing, what will be the best way for someone to reach out to you?
Yeah, so they can just email me directly for either one. My email is just Nicole@bosunsolutions.com so we can set up a time to chat. And, honestly, I do so many calls, where we’re just getting to know each other and I could nerd out with entrepreneurs all day long, love to hear about people’s businesses, so feel free to reach out even if you just want to talk through any kind of needs that you foresee happening.
Oh. Well, that is wonderful. I’m really happy for your seeing a gap, seeing a need, filling it, and giving us, myself as well as the audience, a few ideas about how to think through the whole process. I know you said that it’s kind of a little bit nature versus nurture, some people are just naturally more in tune to it but how to avoid that whole pitfall of talking yourself out of it based on ego, based on fear, based on some of these other common traps.
Right. Absolutely. I’d love to talk you into it. So just – I’m definitely the like serial cheerleader of anybody’s ideas.
And as a cheerleader for ideas, do you have any final messages for the audience out there listening, the last thing that you want anyone tuned in to this episode to really take out of this and take with them during their day?
Yeah, I mean, I think if you are in that space of thinking about trying something, don’t be afraid, go for it. The last thing you want to do is regret not at least having tried. I mean, that really is true. And you can always get another job. Money is infinite, it is not finite so don’t let that be the deterrer.
Hopefully, everyone doesn’t get deterred. I would also like to thank everybody out there listening, for tuning in to Action’s Antidotes, whether it be your first time or whether it be again. Hopefully, you got some really good ideas, some good inspiration, and I hope you’ll tune into some more episodes as I have 120 others as of the time of this recording with people who are also taking on inspiring initiatives to fill gaps in some way. I think that’s actually a really good item that brings everything together is that everyone I’ve interviewed has, in some way, found a gap and is filling it.
Yeah, absolutely. Thanks so much for having me, Stephen.
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About Nicole Grinnell
Nicole is a 3x business owner and founded Mic’d Up Booking driven by her firsthand experience of the power of podcasting. Her desire is to extend this powerful tool to fellow entrepreneurs and business owners. Nicole comes from a long line of entrepreneurs and small business owners. She launched her first business, Bosun Solutions, in 2017. As the daughter of a Small Business Owner turned Corporate Executive Support- she has unique insight to the needs that the Entrepreneur & CEO face in order to scale their business. Her entire career has been laced with finding family-life balance, from working for her family business, to getting married and having kids in the midst of climbing the corporate ladder. She now has a marriage, two teenage children, and has grown her businesses to $2 million in revenue. Her goal is to help other small businesses succeed. She is a client of her own services and firmly believes that podcasting is a form of marketing that can lead to great networking opportunities and business success.